The Brady Bunch of Autism
Join Navah and Matt Asner as they discuss topics relating to the world of autism and family. Navah and Matt have six children. 3 who are autistic. They are the founders of the Ed Asner Family Center. A center that provides arts and vocational enrichments and counseling services and support groups to special needs individuals and their families.
The Brady Bunch of Autism
Asking For Help Can Save A Family
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Silence can sound like “I’m fine,” but for many autism parents and special needs caregivers, it’s actually anxiety, depression, grief, and burnout stacking up day after day. We sit down for a Mental Health Awareness Month Ed Talk to say the quiet part out loud: mental health deserves the same urgency and compassion as physical health, and getting support is not a weakness.
We’re joined by Ed Asner Family Center clinicians Chrisa Sadd, LMFT and Michelle Tapia, LMFT, plus autism moms and advocates Shannon Penrod (Autism Live) and Nancy Alspaugh-Jackson. Nancy shares a raw, hopeful recovery story, from overwhelming grief and overmedication to detox, treatment, counseling, and the tools that help her stay present for her son. Shannon adds what it’s like to love someone through that fire and why the bravest move is often simply asking for help again and again.
We also get practical about what blocks families from care: insurance hoops, referrals, long waitlists, and the stress of trying to find the right therapist fit. We talk about how telehealth expanded access, why group therapy can be powerful, how small acts of kindness like meal trains can keep a caregiver afloat, and what to watch for if you’re worried about a depressed teen or a partner who shuts down emotionally. If you’re planning for your child’s future and the fear feels relentless, you’re not alone, and you don’t have to carry it in secret.
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www.teafc.org From Our Family To Yours
Welcome And Why Mental Health Month Matters
SPEAKER_07Welcome to the Brady Bunch of Autism, your source for family, parenting, and all things autism and special needs. Created by our family for your family. Live from the Ed Azner Family Center. And now your hosts, Nava and Matt Astner. I'm gonna make faith. Hi.
SPEAKER_03Good afternoon.
SPEAKER_07Welcome to another Ed Talk.
SPEAKER_03What is what is this ed talk about, Nava?
SPEAKER_07Well, this first of all, is this our third or our fourth ed talk?
SPEAKER_03This is our fourth ed talk.
SPEAKER_07Our fourth ed talk.
SPEAKER_03And it's an important ed talk.
SPEAKER_07Well, this is Mental Health Awareness Month. International. International. World.
SPEAKER_06World global.
SPEAKER_07Yes. And Krista just came back from London and it was a you said you were saying signs everywhere.
SPEAKER_06It was honestly, I was so impressed with the campaign they did there for International Mental Health Awareness Month. They really did such a wonderful job in creating messages for people that might feel alone or not seen. And these little messages would be I see you, you are loved, you matter. And then there was a hotline to call if people were feeling really in need of some type of mental health services. And they were all over the city. And you know, we're in Los Angeles here. I've seen a little bit of that, but it really has been bumped up a thousand percent to be able to really get help. People have been really vigilant about trying to get help, especially if they're having some, you know, mental health crisis or just need support.
SPEAKER_03Well, let's talk about ed talks a little bit before we move into our topic. Uh, Ed Top Ed Talks are a uh uh service of the Ed Eisner Family Center program of the Ed Eisner Family Center. We offer a free discussion for people to discuss important issues in our community. So our community would be the autism community or the disability community or the special needs community, and we're here talking about important issues that affect families and individuals, and that's what we do on the ed talks. So let's meet our panel, shall we? Let's do it. Sitting to my left is my co-host and co-founder, Nava Pasquitz Asner. I'm Matt Asner. And next to us is Mental Health Director.
SPEAKER_06I'm sorry. I'm the mental health director here at the Ed Asner Family Center. And my name is Krissa Saud, and I'm a licensed marriage family therapist. And this is a wonderful lady who's a part of our mental health team.
SPEAKER_05My name is Michelle Tapia, and I am also a licensed marriage and family therapist.
SPEAKER_03And joining us via the online camera situation are Shannon Penrod. Shannon, do you want to introduce yourself? I'm Shannon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I'm Shannon Penrod. I'm proud to be here, and I'm a mom of an amazing young man on the autism diagnosed on the spectrum when he was two and a half. And I host Autism Live, and I host a show called Let's Talk Autism with Shannon and Nancy. Good way to be serving it up for you.
SPEAKER_03Segway. Nancy Ospot Jackson is our other guest. And Nancy, thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. I'm Nancy Allspot Jackson, as you said, and I am an autism mom. And as Shannon said, I co-host a show with her on the Autism Live Network called Let's Talk Autism with Shannon and Nancy.
Why Mental Health Still Has Stigma
SPEAKER_03Thank you all for being here. So we thought it was it would be an important discussion for all of us to discuss mental health. And you know, one of the things that you know that that that I asked someone the other day, and I can't remember, I think it was during our show. I asked, I think I could ask you, why does mental health or seeking mental health services, why is there an onus to stigma? Why is there a stigma? Why why is there onus on that, or why is there a stigma to getting help? We don't we don't fall under any kind of scrutiny for getting help for physical situations for for like a sick stomach, a broken arm or broken leg, or if we have a stomach problem or or in some other health problem. So why is it that mental health issues are not why are they not at the same level of as physical issues? So why don't we start with Michelle and Krissa, who are the professionals on our panel? Why? Why is that?
SPEAKER_05Well, I think one of the reasons that we have a stigma with mental illness is because people can't see it. And, you know, so on on some level, we're not sure how serious it is because we have problems identifying with it. And then the other part of it, I think, is because it's that whole you have to get up and keep going and you know, sift upper lip and not letting things hold you back. And so I think that there is kind of a lack of sympathy with mental illness.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean of weakness.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, people think well, especially for men. If you show vulnerability, somehow you're weak.
SPEAKER_03And well, I mean, I think there's that in in in physical ailments as well. I mean, I think I certainly think people will say about a physical ailment, oh well, suck it up, you know, go to work anyway, get through it, you know. Oh, you know, I used to work when I was sick, don't worry about it. But if you're really sick, if there's really an issue and you you have a situation where you need help physically, people don't shrug that off. But they seem to do that with mental health. And and I just feel that that's a terrible situation.
SPEAKER_06Well, I do also feel, and unfortunately, I really only know a lot of what happens in California. And we do have a lot of, you know, of sort of this need here in California to be open, to be more vulnerable and to seek out help when you need it. I know in other parts of the state, typically that's not the case. There is that huge stigma that you talked about, Matt, where people don't feel like they could reach out and still get support and feel confident about reaching out, that they might get bullied or, you know, made to feel less than.
Building Family-Wide Support At The Center
SPEAKER_07And sorry for interrupting, but I I think also there is a huge discrepancy too in a man trying to get support, whereas versus a woman, but then as a woman, you know, growing up, my father was a doctor and he had a degree in psychology, and and he thought he called all therapists quacks because he thought there it was a sign of weakness, you know. And you know, whenever a woman would show any need or or she was being uh vulnerable, and I know my mom, there was always that sense, like if you if you really say that you need help as a woman, especially if you're a single mom, you're afraid you're gonna be labeled as like a hysterical woman or or crazy or moody or hormonal or post- but I mean it's always that hysterical woman syndrome, you know. And I think, you know, going back to our origins of the kind of the origins of the center, you know, Matt's background is very much uh entertainment and events and that kind of thing. And you knew that you wanted that part of the center, the pillar of the center. But for me, when I first met Krissa, I was a single mom. I had four kids, I was working three jobs, and you know, I had two autistic sons, and I was just struggling incredibly with specifically with panic attacks and with general anxiety disorder. And for me, because I was I was alone and financially I just couldn't afford to find therapy. And and I I thought, you know, how can a parent really advocate for their child as as well as they could if they had this ability to have this like basic fundamental foundation for their family? You know, most of our families are single parent families, and as I was. And so Chris and I, we were doing events together and and we'd always talk about oh, if only we could do this. And and we always thought there's there has to be a way that we can support the entirety of the family, not just the specific individual who might need our services. So I think I think that was the most important part.
SPEAKER_06Yes, absolutely, because I mean, for for me growing up, I had a father with a lifelong illness and a sister with a lifelong illness, and not just mental health issues, but I noticed how much the that my sister needed attention and my father needed attention. And so there were two other siblings, and we sort of got lost in the mix a little bit. And I see that with special needs families that the siblings also need support, the caregivers need support. It's not just the individual, but the grandparents are struggling as well with looking at the way the family is functioning and how hard it is, especially when you have a parent or two parents working, that it's like without saying it takes a village, you know, and and we have created a village here at the center. And I I am so proud to say that our mental health department, we have five clinicians and we are almost at capacity, but we we really want to provide services to the community, to the autistic special needs, down syndrome community. So we do have spots available with our clinicians, but also, you know, it has just been so awesome that the team that we've created and the and the people we have here, and you guys are so instrumental in in creating that as well.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's an important element to survival, and that's uh one of the things we wanted to create at the center, is an area where people could you know find comfort and find survival instincts and and and lessons and but not just survive, thrive.
SPEAKER_07Thrive. Yeah, yeah.
Nancy’s Recovery From Anxiety And Addiction
SPEAKER_03So Shannon and Nancy. So you you guys are you guys are parents as we are and of special needs children. Nancy, yeah, I want to talk about something you've done recently, and you you've uh you've sought help, you've got you've gotten help. Tell us a little bit about your journey and about how that went for you and how it's going for you.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Well, first of all, I've had a lifelong struggle with anxiety and depression. I grew up in a home with a mother who was who struggled with severe anxiety. I believe she was bipolar and she was an alcoholic. I had a younger brother with Down syndrome. She had three children. My father traveled all the time, so she was left to cope with that situation. So my my experience of her mothering was her always being sad, unable to cope. And then interestingly enough, I ended up with my own special needs child. And when my husband passed away six years ago, I found myself completely going off the rails, so to speak. And ended up with a drug and alcohol addiction, a Xanax addiction, addicted to alcohol as well, on four different antidepressants and ambient. Okay, so we're talking completely over medicated, but completely unable to cope. I was terrified about raising my son by myself and dealing with the stressors of that and dealing with his autism. So two years ago, I voluntarily went into the oldest drug and alcohol women's treatment facility in the country, Friendly House. And first I spent a week in the hospital in detox from the Xanax, which was a very difficult addiction to get out of, and then spent two months at Friendly House dealing with my addiction and getting clean from drugs and alcohol. And since then I have been in a 12-step program and I go to counseling. Michelle is my therapist, and you know, have tools now to deal with with my issues. And you know, you're only as sick as your secrets, and so I'm very open to talking about this and making people aware because I do know lots of special needs parents who suffer from addiction issues, depression issues, anxiety issues. And I just want to be the the voice of encouragement for them to seek help because you know it I was on on a path to total destruction.
SPEAKER_07Incredible.
SPEAKER_06Nancy, I mean your story just just speaks so highly of such courage for you after the passing of your husband, you know, to finally seek out that help. What what was it? Was it a friend? Was it what was it that led you to go to the treatment center?
SPEAKER_04I I knew that if I didn't change the course of my life, I was going to die. Literally. I couldn't function anymore. I was a zombie. And I knew I couldn't be a good parent. I couldn't be a good mother to my son Wyatt on the on the path that I was on. And, you know, I think I just reached the point of desperation where I said, I can't do this alone anymore. I I've got to have help. You know, the writing was on the wall for me that I couldn't continue, you know, going down that street. So I reached out to friends. Shannon was very much aware of it.
SPEAKER_07It was tough. Yeah. But the strength of character, you know, it takes so much strength of character to be able to say, I'm not gonna leave my son. I'm going to now you're gonna make me cry, but I'm going to rise up, even though this is gonna be the hardest thing I'm ever gonna have to deal with in my life. And and you know, that's the mother you are, and that's the model you've shown Wyatt, that you are not gonna let him go on this journey alone. You're gonna be there for him, and what a wonderful inspirational thing.
SPEAKER_03I just want to second that. I I mean that you what you did took an incredible courage, and you facing the unknown is one of the most difficult things we do in life, and you did it with with grace and and and courage, and I and continue to do so. And I can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us. Let's let's say uh a mom or a father, even who who's looking at this right now, who are having issues that that that are troubling and that are leading them down a dark path. What kind of message do you have for them? What kind of what kind of what do you have to say to them?
SPEAKER_04I guess the main message I would I would impart to them is that you can't do this alone. I felt very isolated. I felt like the burden was all on my shoulders. But just as you know at the at Azur Family Center that it takes a village and you try to model that, you have to you have to know there are people that love and care about you that want to see you get well. And you know, I reached out to those people two years ago to help me and to help me with my son because I mean I was gone for two months, you know. I I wasn't there for him. I had to concentrate on my own recovery. But you're never you're never gonna be there for your family until you are there for yourself first and foremost. You gotta put your oxygen mask on first. Yes, absolutely. Without and that yeah, without your own oxygen mask on first, you're gonna you're gonna die and you're not gonna help anybody.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And and it and it's it's interesting because it's a it's a it's a situation which I'm sure you felt very alone in at the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
Why Asking For Help Is Brave
SPEAKER_03And so my next question is for Shannon. Shannon, as a you know, as Nancy's good friend, can you share a little bit about about your support of her and and maybe a message, you know, as well for the for the people out there who are who are looking at this who might need help.
SPEAKER_00Well, first of all, I'm I'm not crying, you are, right? As I just sit here and I just want to say to Nancy, and I hope I hope I say this enough, but let me say it in front of everybody how much I love you and how much I respect you and how proud I am of you because you walked through the fire, right? And for everybody who loves somebody when you're watching somebody go through something, it's just harrowing, you know, to watch her go through this and to see that she felt alone, you know, and no matter what those of us around her could say, the truth of the matter was we weren't walking in her footsteps, right? And it's hard. It's hard to watch your friend be in pain. And and, you know, first of all, there was the loss of Reed, which when you said six years, Nancy, it just took me off. I can't believe it's already been six years. Because Reed had a huge presence in all of our lives. What an incredible man, right? And so not only did Nancy lose, you know, her life partner, but she lost the person who was in the fight to help her son. And and to, you know, and I and I remember, you know, Reed in the last days was saying, if I could, I would trade places with her. I feel so bad that I'm leaving her. You know, that was his worry as as he was going, you know. So it was, it was super hard. But, you know, and and what I loved about Nancy is, you know, we we taught you were talking about how sometimes it's seen as a a weakness when you need help. And I wish we would change that conversation around so that we acknowledge that the bravest thing that a person can do is to ask for help. And Nancy did that. And sometimes the help wasn't forthcoming. I think Nancy would tell you that it's no easy thing to get the help. She had to ask for it, and she had to keep asking for the help and keep asking for the help. And then she, you know, even after she found the help, she had to walk through it. It's like walking on hot coals, and and all the rest of us could do is stand by and watch and pray for her and try to figure out ways that we could be there for her while it was happening. But man, you know, hats off to her because she's do she did and is doing the hard work. I love you, Nancy.
SPEAKER_04I love you, Shandy. I think we I think we imagine a message to other people. I think you'd be surprised. I think you'll be surprised if you're going through this kind of a struggle, what kind of support you will get when you ask for help. Because sometimes I think it's taking that first step that's the hardest.
SPEAKER_03Well, let's talk about that a little bit because maybe there are people out there who are afraid of asking, you know, afraid of asking for help. They're they're worried that their family won't understand, they're worried that their employers won't understand. Because that's a situation too. You know, people are employed. They they they want to feel strong in their jobs, they want to feel like they're doing something, you know, and and they always want to look a certain way to their employers. So going to their employer for possible help is is you know, could be construed in their eyes as a sign of weakness. It's not. We all know that. So, how do we as a society move forward in trying to help people? How do we as employers move forward and try to help people and try to normalize getting help? How do we do that as a society? We do it one step at a time. Are there any ideas out there from you guys, maybe?
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean, it's like what you said earlier, Matt, that when you have a physical ailment, you go to the doctor. It might not be something that you actually see, but you're comfortable with going to get your cholesterol checked out, or you know, you have a hurt ankle or Hurt me. That's stuff that is willing, people are willing to be more in acceptance of, oh, you're not feeling well. You, you, you have migraines, okay, no problem. But it's the mental health piece where someone's saying, I'm really struggling with depression. And then, you know, I don't know what the employer's thoughts are. It's like, oh no, is this going to cost me money? Are they going to be out? How much time do they need? Are they going to be able to do their job? Which is all of those unfortunate things that I think employers might start to think about. But I think that a person has to stand in their courage and say, this is about my well-being, my well-being, not just in this time period, but overall. And I need to get myself healthy. And I think, you know, maybe in the future, employers should give mental health days. I mean, we used to have sick days.
SPEAKER_03Why not?
SPEAKER_06Right? Like a wellness. And not just on the weekend when we're supposed to be recharging and rebooting ourselves. You can't just live life in a healthy way on the weekend and go back to all the stress and novice favorite word, Michigas, during the week. Michigas.
SPEAKER_07Well, I think, I think shows like this where we see two pillars of our community really be vulnerable and transparent to their, you know, to people who see them every day and think, oh, Shannon, Shannon can do anything, or Nancy is, you know, the pillar of the community. But to make ourselves vulnerable, I think it's it's so important because there, I, you know, Nancy, you were talking about your experience, and just I know personally that there are so many autism moms, like wild on e we're autism moms, so we can get crazy and we can drink and day drink because we're autism moms, right? And I know I know that during COVID, so many social drinking autism mom friends of mine and and myself, you know, I didn't think it was a big deal to have a couple glasses of wine every night. And but it became something that I really look forward to. And it, you know, I I don't even want to go go to that extent, but I I know people who during COVID went from being social drinkers to really having a problem. And uh, you know, a night like tonight, it we're helping to stop some of the stigma. I know that Shannon was on our show during COVID, and she and I were talking at length about the fact that the uncertainty, the fear factor, you know, you have medically fragile kids some of sometimes, you had kids that were too young to be vaccinated. All of these issues combined to take people like Shannon and I who were having anxiety to the next level. And so Shannon in one of our shows had talked about how she finally said that, you know, I need to see somebody. And we had so many people who were writing and calling and saying, you know, this this inspired me. This inspired me to take that, like Nancy said, that first step to get some help for yourself. Because we say it all the time, you know, you can't be as good of an advocate for your child if you're not advocating for yourself first.
SPEAKER_06And that's exactly to speak to Matt's point about earlier how to shift that is I think people have to really have that self-awareness and they have to value themselves and believe that they are worth it. And then once they feel that essence, reach out. There's so many multiple layers that you have to go through. Do I have a problem? Do I not have a problem? Do I need help? Do I need to seek out? You know, so there's these all these layers. And it might take people months or weeks even before they actually make the decision to reach out. They might think at first, notice something's happening in their life, and then finally make that phone call. And it's heartbreaking when I have to tell people that my we're full or my practice is full, or you know, it is heartbreaking.
Insurance Barriers And COVID Telehealth Wins
SPEAKER_03And so we try to find referrals for other people to Well, I and I just want to say that's that's something we haven't talked about. We we were talking about how difficult it is, you know, with employers and with with uh you know, with our families, about how how we we're vulnerable, how we seem vulnerable, and and how it's a difficult thing to feel vulnerable in front of our family and employers. But let's let's talk and how how we want to make it easier to get help. But let's talk about our health industry. Our health industry is problematic because our health industry makes it difficult to get help.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03It's we have to go through hoops. We have to jump through hoops, we have to you know get referrals, we have to find someone who's on our insurance, and it's a very difficult situation. I mean, we alone had to jump through so many hoops to get our kids in in therapy, or to find a specialist, or to find a specialist that's a good fit, and that's the thing. You go find you you go meet with someone, they might not be a good fit, they might not they might not be the right person, and and it's it's difficult to find someone on your insurance, you know, anyway.
SPEAKER_05Sure, but then the other part of it is we have insurance, but then they also encourage you not to use your insurance exactly because if you use your insurance, then the rates get raised for everyone on your plan. Exactly. So it's really set up to not get help.
SPEAKER_03So that's a big problem. So we have to change that too. We have to normalize getting help.
SPEAKER_00Can I say one thing, Nomad?
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Uh, you know, I started doing therapy as Nava said in the middle of COVID, after our dear friend Joanne passed away, Joanne Laura, uh, like it was the tipping point for me. And I I could tell, because it wasn't my first rodeo with myself, that self-awareness that Krissa was talking about. I I could tell that I was getting to a place where I needed help. And so I knew to ask for it. But I will say that as as horrible as COVID has been, I feel like there's been some strides in this area. I was amazed that in COVID, I didn't have to ask for a referral for mental health. I like I was given a list of providers and told that I could go through as many as I want. The number of hours that I was allowed to use was waived. There was no limit for mental health. I was told that I could do it via telehealth. All of the telehealth rules got relaxed so that I could I could do it on the phone or I could do it in a Zoom meeting. And my provider waived my copay so it was free. None of this I would have known had I not called. So I'm hearing from people that it is so much easier right now, not that it's easy, but easier because of COVID, and that a lot of places are still giving you know discounts or reduced copay or allowing you to see people that are out of network as in network if you the if there's a waiting list. So I just want to put it out there that it that in this moment take advantage of it.
SPEAKER_03And I will say, I will say there are organizations such as the Yet Asner Family Center that offer insurance services and sliding scale services, and we make it affordable and we make it and we and we normalize healthcare here. We normalize mental health services. And I think we need to see that more in society in general. There there doesn't we wanna we want to see the need for us not be a need, right?
SPEAKER_06So and you know what? I mean, just you know, we were talking a little bit earlier before the show, and I think what I really would like to start doing as the director is maybe really supporting others with groups because I love group therapy. I we really do learn from each other and hear each other's stories, and it can become really inspirational in helping us get to that next place that we want to be at. And just hearing somebody else's story, like you know, Nancy yourself and and Shannon, that's inspirational. And I love the face-to-face group. And I I know Zoom has been really instrumental in bringing people together all over the world, and it's been safe, a safe place for us since of COVID. But there's still a little bit of a barrier that I just love the connection face-to-face if we could do it safely with masks or outside. But I would like to see us do some more uh group therapy. Parents love that, young people love that. It's just it's just some connection, some energy that you can feel that that you know, Zoom is kind of missing.
When Help Feels Out Of Reach
SPEAKER_03But I I hear you. I hear you. So on the ad talks, we like to what we do is usually talk to our guests and then we kind of open it up for questions. So we have some questions that have been asked by people prior to this wonderful program. And also, if you're out there watching, please comment, put your question in the comments, ask a question, we'll ask it live on camera to our panel. So the first question is um what do you do when you feel like you've asked for help and none is coming? Uh who wants to who wants to tackle that that question?
SPEAKER_06What do you do? So, meaning like somebody finally reached out, they made that phone call, or they've called their insurance company and they've gotten the go-ahead and they can't find a therapist?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Let's say they get hurdles put it in front of them nonstop. What what what do we do? What does one do?
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean, Nancy, I'm kind of curious. Like, did you get support immediately? I mean, look, Shannon's amazing. I'm sure you got support like that. But, you know, do you feel like there you were really cautious on who you wanted to reach out to, or did you just have you just knew you were going to get that support?
SPEAKER_04Well, I think it was a bit of a process. I do think people saw that I was in trouble before I said basically, I've got to do something about this. I think the signs were there. You know, people that are were around me on a daily basis were starting to see that I was struggling. But it did take me saying, I I've got to get help. I can't do this alone. And as soon as I said that, man, it was like the floodgates were open. I had so much support. So as soon as I was willing to admit it myself and say, I need help now, they stepped up. They stepped up to take care of my son. They stepped up to help me find the right place to go to, you know, the right services that I needed, fill in the gap so I didn't have any worries. So I could focus on my recovery. So once I made that admission, the help was pretty close behind.
SPEAKER_00I gotta say though, I I can think of at least one mom that I'm friends with on Facebook right now that doesn't live close enough that I can go and do anything physically. And I and I I I want to speak in generalities though, too, that I see a lot of our families that have kids that are heavily impacted, that first it starts out where they're saying, you know, when the kids get older, they're saying, I need help, I need support, and they're not finding the support for their adult, heavily impacted kiddos. And it's like the trickle down. So now the parents start to have issues, and there's even and it's even harder for them to ask for help. And there's one mom who just this week was writing and saying, I'm not gonna ask anybody for help anymore because none is coming. And my heart just bled. And and, you know, I did reach out and I and I said, you know, have you tried this? Have you tried this? And she said, Yes, but you know, there's a waiting list for my kid for, you know, one of the places that I was saying, she said, there's a waiting list that's six months to two years. And I, you know, and on my heart is bleeding because I I feel like there are some people out there who have said, honestly, what they've said is help my kiddo, and then I'll take care of myself. And that help doesn't come. And so there's no time for them to take care of themselves. And and we have to wait until it's like catastrophic. I I wish that our society would pay more attention to those families that are dealing with some of those bigger issues and provide support before there's a catastrophe. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03I do. And and and as you said earlier, maybe we're seeing strides in that area. Maybe we're seeing you know a shift because of the pandemic, because you know, mental health has has certainly getting some attention now. But maybe we're seeing more of a shift to acceptance of people needing help and get trying to get them help and normalizing help. Hopefully we are.
SPEAKER_06Well, I oh I also have to say that you know, many years ago, Matt and Nava saw a lack in the community. And like, this is how stuff gets formed. They, you know, let's do something grassroots, let's be hands-on, let's let's do this for our community. We can only do so much in Los Angeles, but you know, there's online content and all that sort of stuff. So that's just kind of some of you know the other programs that we offer here too. And and then the mental health, because nobody was doing that. No one was really offering mental health focused on the special needs families. And here we are.
SPEAKER_07I I think Shannon's your example of that particular mom. It's I agree with you, it's the most frustrating thing in the world. And it's it's it's a per it's an enormous percentage of our community. And every day we have parents calling us telling the exact same story, and that there's no setting for their child, that there's a waiting list, and and and you're right, you know, that to that parent who says, I'm just trying to get through the day, I say don't listen to anybody else and just do what makes sense for your particular family to get through your day. Because we, as parents, even though we have autistic kids, we can't be in that parent's shoes. We don't understand that level of support that that child needs, and that it's not just about the support that child needs from nine to five. It's 24 hours a day, and it's eloping and it's self-indurous, and it's it's more than most people can handle. And, you know, to that parent, I would just say don't be alone in that. You know, reach out to Shannon, reach out to us, reach out to your mom's group and your, you know, your community. Just don't be alone in it. Maybe you can't take care of yourself, but don't be alone in that kind of orbiting world where you just are are, it's all about just getting through each day because, you know, that's that's helping yourself. That is self-care. Even if it's just about, I mean, I remember being a single mom and you know, uh getting through each day. And maybe I was gonna go through the drive-thru of KFC to get milk instead of having to get out of the car with a tantruming kit. That was my way of just getting through the day.
SPEAKER_03KFC has milk.
SPEAKER_07Well, you know, the little milk. She's saying, but I mean, but I mean, nothing wrong with KFC, by the way. Sorry if I vegans of the world. But I'm saying to that mom, you know, call Shannon and call me. Let's get on Zoom and have a talk and just make uplift your spirits. Just if it's only for a moment, then you are helping yourself, even if it's for just that moment. But we need to get some better settings. You know, we have some amazing people in Arizona who are creating incredible new programs and incredible new facilities and residential programs that looked, they look like a place that you would want to send your children, not a, you know, someplace that you wouldn't want to send a stranger to.
SPEAKER_06But Nava, you're absolutely right. When when you have somebody that just compliments you or offers you a smile or says, Can I pick something up for your dinner and just drop it off? Just those tiny little acts of kindness really make a difference in someone's day. I've heard, I've read so many stories and I've heard so many conversations about people said, that person just smiled at me and it just made my day. Something that small can keep you going.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And it's important for us to bestow acts of kindness. I mean, that's kind of like my motto. It's like, what can I do? Well, I've been a therapist for over for over almost 20 years now. I mean, and that's like where I've come come from is that to be giving and to be generous with others the best I can.
SPEAKER_03I don't know, I don't know if any of you have experienced this during the pandemic, but I I probably more times than I than it ever has. It's never happened to me before the pandemic, I'll tell you that. And it's happened maybe nine or ten times since. You're in line of Starbucks. I go through the drive-thru, I don't go in anymore. But you're in line of Starbucks, and you get to the the front of the line, and your car drives up, and and the the the person, the barista says, Oh, you know, your your coffee was paid for by the car in front of you.
SPEAKER_07That might have been me. That was always Chris. Every time you did that, I do that. And of course, you know, it's the best.
SPEAKER_03The whole thing is you want to pay it forward, you want to do it to the next car. So uh that's a wonderful thing. And we need to do that more in life. We need to do that more. Yeah when we go out, and when you know, when we see someone who, you know, maybe needs some help or a friend who's struggling. Just do it and and do it anonymously. You know, it's just that's a wonderful feeling. It's a wonderful feeling to be able to think that you might have made someone smile. That's it.
SPEAKER_06Just makes someone's it, it makes someone's day.
SPEAKER_03Nava, do you want to handle that question?
Finding Therapy And Protecting Relationships
SPEAKER_07Denise says, hello everybody. I wish I had caught your program from the beginning. You can watch it again, Denise. We're gonna have it on YouTube and on our Facebook page. But thank you so much. I'm wondering if you offer therapy for all or just for parents of children with autism. So, first and foremost, the Ed Asmorn Family Center is not just for autism, it's for all special needs families. We welcome all parents of special needs individuals and their families. And we do take, we do offer therapy for parents, but we are full. And there is a waiting list. And and yes, in answer to your question, Denise, you can have therapy at the Get As Nerd Family Center.
SPEAKER_06Yes. I mean, I mean, there's that word neurotypical that comes in as well. That yes, we have people that couples counseling, we offer couples counseling, not just for the special needs community, but for other people, anybody that's struggling. I mean, you know, they said that that this wasn't just a pandemic, it was a divorce epidemic, too. I mean, so many couples struggling during the last year and a half, two years. And this is also the theme within special needs families as well. The the intense fracture that or stress that this might put on a marriage.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Or relationships. Absolutely. Can I say too that one of the things in the beginning, Nancy and I are cut from the same bolt of cloth in that we were both raised that you don't ask for help. And and I remember in the beginning when Reed was really sick, it was super hard for her. It was like a muscle that she, you know, didn't know that she had that she could ask for help. But, you know, we would say to her things like, What? I want to do something that would actually help you. What would actually help you? And and eventually she said to a bunch of us, just every once in a while, bring me a, you know, when they have those whole chickens at the store that are roasted. She's like, Bring me a chicken and some green beans, folks. That would help me because then my child is fed and fed well. And then we green beaned and chickened her to death.
SPEAKER_04You did. Thank God it saved my life when my husband was really sick with his cancer before he died. He was sick for a long period of time. And, you know, I just I needed the help desperately. And Shannon put together a meal train, and that was a lifesaver in those days. And, you know, maybe you don't think of these things because you're yeah, you're struggling, you know, you feel like you're drowning.
SPEAKER_00But it's helpful to know what to do because I think some people we could bring chicken and green beans and they would go, that's not helpful. But for Nancy, that was the thing that was helpful. And as soon as she, I don't know about the rest of you, but I want to be helpful. I just sometimes don't know how to. And if it's a Costco chicken, it's always helpful. There you go. Well, but not for the vegans, right?
SPEAKER_06I don't know. I love vegans. But just do a grain bowl.
SPEAKER_03No, I and I gotta say, I agree with Nancy. I think I think that we went through we've been through very hard couple months. And you know, when when my father Shannon showed up with the chicken, yeah. When my father died, we had friends send meals for a week or so, and it was it was a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_07We got a two-for.
SPEAKER_03We got a two-for, yeah, we did.
SPEAKER_07Because my mom passed, and then literally two months later, Ed passed. So we were just coming, just getting our heads above water, and then but and I agree with Nancy, you feel like you're drowning.
Teen Depression Warning Signs
SPEAKER_03You feel like, oh, you know, you just feel overwhelmed, and and and I always call it you feel like you're down the rabbit hole. And and it's just you're you're in something that I don't know if it's Wonderland, but you're in something. And and it's it's so difficult to even just get up and and and do. Do you know whatever you need to do. But the thought of eating or or or working on a meal or or getting a meal even is uh something that's just so huge and almost impossible. So friends, friends, friends, taking care of friends. That's uh that's a very important thing. Okay, so another another question we have, and we'll let Nava read this if I can get it. There we go, right there. The middle one right there.
SPEAKER_07Right. Where are my glasses? I'm very worried about my teen and his depression. It is so hard to know what is overreacting and what is underreacting. Is there a checklist or something? And what is underreacting?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so depression shows up in so many different ways. You know, Michelle, I'm thinking about moodiness. So for for children, young children, maybe 10 and under, you might. So this is a teenager. So I mean moodiness for sure. Anger, anger, sleep, sleep, uh, sleep issue disturbance.
SPEAKER_05It could be food issues as well. And sometimes watching too much Netflix, playing too many video games is a way of too much Minecraft, yeah, that young people have of self-medicating.
SPEAKER_07No, Minecraft is actually really good, but there are a lot of video games that so many teenagers, we have quite a few teenagers, but I mean a lot of them are super violent, you know. A lot of them are about stabbing and shooting and it could be a great release, but it is, but I mean, I think that if they hyper focus on video games, Milo is shaking his head off camera. It's like video games are stress relieved.
SPEAKER_06But I have to say, with depression, I'm sorry, with depression, another indicator is isolation, right? And also you have to be concerned if they're posting anything questionable on social media. You know, you really want to kind of, you know, what's changed about them? Is it been a drastic change or has it been a slow change? Right. Are they isolating from their friends?
SPEAKER_07I think sleeping a lot too.
SPEAKER_06I think teenagers, if they're sleep, oversleeping is an indicator as well as undersleeping isn't is an indicator. Well, that's more anxiety undersleeping.
SPEAKER_03I'm an undersleeper.
SPEAKER_06Me too.
SPEAKER_07So this parent is asking, you know, am I uh am I underreacting or am I overreacting? I would say that if this becomes a regular thing, if this if you're seeing a pattern, if this is something that came on very dramatically, maybe there's something happening at school, he's being bullied or something, yeah, some change in their life. I I it's better to get them some support. What is the negative of getting them support? So agreed. I I you know I'm a worrying Jewish mom. I say always overreact.
SPEAKER_06Well, but also ask, ask, ask them, do you what kind of relationship? But sometimes teenagers aren't gonna talk to their gonna grunt a lot of times walk away. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Denise Jaffey had a a good comment. Let's put that back up. I know the American Cancer Society offers free house cleaning and other volunteers to drop off meals and run errands for those who need help during treatment. Is there a way for us to start the same type of volunteer program for autism parents? Sure.
SPEAKER_07Yes, that's explaining. That's an app. That's an app.
SPEAKER_03No, I mean that's that's something that uh that I think is a great idea. And it's you know start it up.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I I really love that.
SPEAKER_03Everyone should start that up. I think every community should be.
SPEAKER_07Especially if you have a situation where you're a single mom, you have a child who needs intense support, and uh you just somebody who would bring something to your house. That would that would be, you know, we all should do that as moms. So to have somebody who would kind of re relegate and be able to help us facilitate that, I'm all for it.
Supporting A Partner Who Shuts Down
SPEAKER_03Okay, the next question. Uh, I see my husband, he doesn't talk about things, but but I know this is all hard for him. I don't know what to do to get him to talk. I feel like I'm alone and he probably feels that way too.
SPEAKER_07Uh, this is a very common problem for one for one parent to to really kind of dive into it and and explore and and and embrace and the other parent to and I think a lot of times as moms, I mean you were you were probably more so in that situation, but we feel that we have to get as much information as possible. We need to just dive into it and have something to kind of distract us from this unknown diagnosis in the beginning. And I think dads really don't understand in a way, or they're not allowed to really kind of describe what's going on in their head. And and you know, each person is different. I had a different perspective than you did, and I saw my brother Israel's perspective and and and how his wife really kind of just took up the mantle 100% and he kind of just ran away. And and you know, every single parent who's going through this has a different kind of story and reality. And so I would say to this mom, you know, really consider. I mean, our wonderful Michelle is a marriage expert, you know, she she knows that dynamic, uh, and especially with special needs parents. I mean, I don't want to say the percentage because I've gotten yelled at before, but it's really high. It's very high the divorce rate.
SPEAKER_06But I really I also want to just add to that, Nava, that I think men express themselves obviously very differently. Women tend to speak in multiple paragraphs about their thoughts and feelings. And and you know, men might give one or two words. So men um unless you're Matt Asner. Well, he's enlightened. Matt's enlightened. He's thinking he's okay with being in his vulnerability.
SPEAKER_03I was raised by uh black women, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Your mom and your two sisters. I had all brothers, so yeah.
SPEAKER_03No, but I no, I I think I think when I mean talking about like you know, diagnosis and and that that situation, I think that uh I wish that parent had said where they were in that journey.
SPEAKER_07Right. Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, because that would make a difference.
SPEAKER_03And you're right, you're right. It does make a difference because I think I I know that that you know for me, you know, at diagnosis, I I just said to myself, I we I need to figure this out, and I need to find the you know, I need to put it together. And I and and the most important thing was I knew I knew there were gonna be hurdles, and that's a terrible thing. Hurdles are a terrible thing, right? And so that, you know, you can't look at it and say there aren't gonna be hurdles. So that sends alarm bells, you know, going through your head. But at the same time, I I had this kind of mission inside me, and I said, I I need to figure this out because I need him to build his own life and to make himself happy and to make himself uh to drive himself in happiness. We're still working on it, it's it's an it's an ongoing process, but you know, I think, right?
SPEAKER_07I mean, that's well, I mean, of course, yeah, of course. I mean, we you're talking about a four-year-old versus a 19-year-old, and every kid, you know, you guys still have those thoughts. Uh of course you do. I do, I'm for one in a million, Maddie. Not to give you kudos because your head is big enough, but he's extraordinary. Matt's a one, he is he's a one in a million, and and and and this woman, the fact that she's even noticing her husband's kind of feelings is she's ahead of the game. Yeah, you know, because a lot of you know, a lot of the the marriage dynamic is not noticing and saying, I wish you would notice more. Well, I mean, I am guilty of that.
SPEAKER_00You definitely are guilty of part of the reason, Matt, why you do like why you were so ahead on the game, why you're so extraordinary is a you had a brother who was diagnosed, so you'd already gone through it a little bit as a brother. And also, I mean, I'm I'm just gonna say, because I I know this about you, that growing up, your best friend was someone who had Tourette. And the fact that you were a friend to somebody who had Tourette's way before, I mean, it just makes you remarkable, but it also means that you had already accepted that sometimes people are different and that it didn't make them less than before you ever thought of having children, which makes you remarkable. And I think that there are men out there that have never met knowingly met a person who had, you know, autism or tourette's or whatever, and never been friends with one of those people. So I think part of it is the fear that's there. Do you guys agree?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, someone someone brought up, you know, I think Michelle brought up in the very beginning of this conversation about mental health, you know, that that the the fear of of something that's not visible, that's invisible. The fear of the unknown is the same thing, fear of something invisible. So people fear something they don't know. And especially if if it seems different.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_03Especially if it seems different. They don't they don't like that, they don't gravitate towards that. Deborah Roger has a a question or an insight.
SPEAKER_07Deborah is saying, Nancy, thank you for sharing and for your inspiration. Thanks to everyone here for highlighting mental health. Matt and available we love you guys. We love you, Deborah, Sebastian.
SPEAKER_03And then uh Ms. Wellness.
SPEAKER_07Now that our children now that our child is getting older, I'm I just totally talked over you. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03No, go ahead.
SPEAKER_07Now that our child is getting older, the longevity of this diagnosis is starting to really hit us. Probably never having an empty nest and making our heart hard-wrenching decisions for his future has caused us a lot of anxiety lately, added to the list, trying to take it one day at a time while planning ahead at the same time. Call me, Schifra.
SPEAKER_03Call me. I have something to say about that. So I no matter what, never say never about anything.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03You know, and and I and I know I know that everyone has different circumstances, and I know that everyone has you know a different road they're traveling. But you know, when when Will when Will was diagnosed, he was I was told that he would never do this, he would never do that, he would never graduate high school, he would never, you know, never really talk because he was non-verbal back then or limited verbal. And he's come so far, and he he's really broken all of those no's. He's broken all of the no's, and I'm so proud of him. And and you know, don't listen to the voice inside your head that says no. I think that's an important thing.
SPEAKER_07How far that your son has gone, Shifra, with from where he started, and how you, you know, Shifra created an incredible natural product that has helped me immensely. I mean, tonight it's talking about mental health, and you know, I I try to be natural and not take med pharmaceuticals, and and Shifra has created an anxiety CBD non-T THC formula that's really changed my life. So, you know, you just need to come in and talk to us and and and I miss you, and you know, we're gonna get through this together.
SPEAKER_06And and I feel like I know we I know we're ending soon, but I just feel like overall, people need to see their value. They need to believe in themselves, and that I know it's so hard to do that sometimes, but you're worth it, your family's worth it, and being a good friend of someone else, it really helps you feel a sense of love and connection, and it it gives to them as well, and it just helps us be a better community, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, for all. Can I just add to that on that comment? You know, so much of anxiety comes from fear. It it really is what anxiety is, is fear. And one of the things that brought me to therapy at the Ed Asser Family Center and brought me to Michelle was my complete overwhelming anxiety about Wyatt's future. But what I do in therapy, and sit down with Michelle and I talk about my fears, I put a name to them, and then I talk about the next necessary step. And as long as I can take those little steps, those next necessary steps, and then turn over the fears, you know, to my higher power, I'm gonna be okay. But that's one of the things that's that's why it's important to get help so you can name those fears and talk about them and get them out in the open because boy, otherwise they will haunt you and talk about keeping you up at night. They will.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03I want to thank everyone for joining us, those at home and those on our panel. Chrissa, Michelle, you're welcome, Nava, Matt, Shannon, and Nancy. Nancy, you are a courageous woman. You're brave, and and it was very brave for you to come on this show and talk about this and the honest with the honesty that you did. So I can't I can't thank you enough for doing that. And I think you you're gonna help somebody else. You're you're helping me. Definitely did and bless you.
SPEAKER_06Thank you.
SPEAKER_03If if someone wants to to uh see if if they can come here to the center, all they need to do is write Chrissa at chrissa at teafc.org. That's chrissa at teafc.org. Look for another ed talk next week. Next month. Sorry, next month, not next week, next month. Uh, but nov and I will be back next week at three o'clock on Tuesdays with a Brady Bunch of Autism episode. And we just want to thank you. We we we do this, uh, this is a part of our programming here at the center. You're you're uh it's part of uh you know our programs that that we fundraise for, you know, just like the art classes and the mental health support that we offer, we raise, we're a we're a nonprofit, and this is how we pay for things. Uh so please uh remember us in your donation, uh uh in the donations that you make. I thank everyone.
SPEAKER_07Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you on the next talks. Bye-bye.
